Expert: Chef Glen L. Davis II - 12/21/2008

Question
QUESTION: Are there medium sized spice grinders and mixers available.. I've been using the
regular coffee grinder.  I need something 5 to 10 times bigger capacity.  Thanks

ANSWER: Good question Fred!
Yes there are larger spice grinders, personally I do not like them.
I have used spice grinders anywhere from small domestic ones, all the way up to large commercial grinders and I see a fatal flaws with all of them.
First off, the commercial ones are VERY pricey, I do not believe I have come across any that I saw as worth the investment. They also use ALOT of power for the relatively small job they do.
Secondly, most of them are based on a food processor design with a blender-style blade (basically a large coffee grinder that is more squat). This results in a sub-par grind. From my experience I have found that they tend to grind some of the desires spice to much, and leave about 30-40% either partially ground or even untouched! This can be a real pain in the neck when you are trying to finely grind spices in any quantity. They also are notorious for having very poorly functioning motors. The ones I have worked with, like your coffee grinder at home use a basic rotor and stator drive. This works just like it sounds, the outside part of the motor stays stationary (stator). When the stator is energized by turning the switch to the "on" position it creates a magnetic field. The electro-magnetic field created by the stator causes the rotor, which is covered on its cylindrical surface by magnets, to spin within the stator, the rotor is connected directly to the blades, causing the blades to spin and grind your coffee or spices. This direct drive system works well if it is designed properly. The problem in this case is that the motors are generally undersized for the job they are intended to perform and the wires wound around the stator are usually not insulated properly resulting in "shorting" of the motor. If/when the wires "short out", this results in the motor not properly creating the magnetic field needed to spin the rotor. This can cause the blades to spin erratically, resulting in a big headache and loosely ground spices, or the motor completely failing. The other problem is that the better designed commercial models, brand new cost around $900 and up! I think that is pretty steep to do the job a coffee grinder can do for under $30 and the cheap ones usually work better and requre less power, along with less maintenance!
Third is that the large domestic and commercial spice grinders tend to be heavy, awkwardly shaped, unbelievably large, and VERY VERY loud. Honestly if I were in your shoes I could not justify purchasing a commercial spice grinder unless I needed to grind SEVERAL POUNDS of spices per day. For example if I were making a living making spice blends such as rib or chicken "rubs", or if I was running a seasoning company/restaurant/catering company that specialized in products that required fresh spice blends made daily.   
Finally, I prefer to use either a coffee grinder or better yet a pesil and mortar! Personally I wouldn't trade my marble pesil and mortar for anything! The pesil and mortar can hold about 1/2 cup of dried spices or herbs, and about 1 cup of fresh herbs or spices. It is driven by good old fashioned elbow grease but it is much easier to control the coarseness or fineness of the item being ground. I also like the fact that it is EXTREMELY easy to clean. All you have to do, depending on what has been ground, is wipe it out with a warm wet cloth until all the residue is removed. The pesil and mortar also require no power, look good in any kitchen and have many, many more uses besides simply grinding (its what those of us in the food biz call a multi-tasker). I have used the pesil (the "stick" part of the system) to "muddle" herbs (bruise them to extract the maximum amount of oils for beverages such as mint juelips and mojitos), tenderize meat, pound thin meat for sauteed dishes, and best of all a little smack from the pesil makes peeling garlic a breeze!
If the pesil and mortar idea doesn't thrill you I would stick to the coffee grinder! If you REALLY want/need the commercial grinder I would recommend models produced by Hobart, or Robot Coupe. Don't get Kitchen Aide, Cuisinart, Black & Decker, or any home kitchen name spice grinders. While all of the before mentioned manufacturers make many products that work very well and are fairly durable, they simply do not hold up to the rigors of repeated use and abuse. They only tend to shine with particular products. For example Kitchen Aide makes great large domestic counter top mixers, Cuisinart makes good coffee makers, hand-held mixers, and blenders, and Black & Decker makes good small kitchen appliances such as hand-held mixers (and great battery powered drills). There are a few places on the internet to find medium to large domestic and commercial spice grinders. I find most of my restaurant supplies by simply typing what I am looking for into Google's search engine and narrowing the search from there. Th only problems with this method are #1 you cannot be 100 certain that you will receive EXACTLY the same item as you paid for and #2 shipping is VERY COSTLY, especially if it has to be shipped as ground only freight.
Ultimately of course, the decision is up to you. I am going to give you a few tips that I use in the kitchen regularly, both at home and at work.

#1- If you need to coarse grind a large quantity of easily ground spices (cloves, softer peppercorns (almost any besides tellicerry), dried rosemary (or almost any other dried herb), cardamom (removed from the pod), dried bread cubes for bread crumbs, candy, ice, or just about anything else that is not rock hard; you can place enough of the product to fill a gallon sized zip-top freezer bag about 1/2 way when laid flat about 2/3 full in a single layer and roll a rolling pin over the bag of product while applying enough pressure to pulverize whatever is in the bag. YOU MUST USE THICK PLASTIC FREEZER BAGS!!!! I use this method often and if you don't break the bag you can use it to store the leftover product. Also if you don't crush/pulverize the all of the product you can use the rolling pin, a saute pan, or a meat mallet (ONLY a FLAT sided mallet will work) to smash the remaining whole product, and it is an AWESOME way to get some stress out!

#2- some spices grind/crush easier and also have a stronger flavor by toasting them lightly in the oven for a few min. at around 375-400F.

#3- If you find that toasting does not help much, try freezing the spices. This will serve to make some spices somewhat brittle making it easier to crush/grind.

#4- A food processor will finely chop some spices. This will usually give the same effect as a pepper/salt mill just . Only try to "chop" the spices about 1/4 cup at a time until you see how well it will "chop" the spices and only "chop" the spices in pulses until the desired consistency is achieved. The food processor can also "chop" the herbs/spices to the point that the resemble "fine ground" spices you would purchase from the grocery store. Once you know how it will "chop" particular spices you can "chop" several different types of spices at one time to create your own seasoning blends.

#5- Another option is to get a few different styles of pepper/salt grinders and fill them with different spices. I like to use this method for spices that I use for garnish or an extra "kick" of flavor after dishes are plated. If you use this method be sure to clearly label the different grinders.

#6- You can also grind more of any spice you need for a recipe in your coffee/spice grinder and put the extra in a freezer zip-top bag or air-tight container (tupper-ware or the disposable tupper-ware look-a-likes will not cut it). For example if you needed to use 2 tbsp of fine ground black pepper, simply grind as much as you can fit into your grinder and put the remainder into the a fore mentioned air tight container and freeze it. While you are at it you could even grind an extra batch and add that to the same container. you can keep adding to the containers and the spices will keep fresh for much longer than if you kept the spices in a non sealed container in a cabinet at room temperature. They will keep for months and possibly even years.

#7- dried herbs can sometimes be easily ground in the palm of your hand using the thumb or index finger of the opposite hand. This method works very well to grind/crush dried herbs such as parsley, chives, sage, dill, thyme, lavender, or almost any "soft" dried herbs (soft dried herbs are almost any that are the leaves of herb plants).

#8- The same technique used in the last tip works even better for fresh herbs, including ones that would be hard if dried (such as rosemary)

#9- Place ground spices in small resealable containers and store them on a small, thin shelf, or a small turn stool on the counter or in a cabinet within arms-reach of where you prep food before cooking or your stove/oven/grill

#10- If you are using dried herbs/spices in soups, stocks, sauces, marinades or any recipe that calls for them and a liquid such as wine, beer, stock, water or just about any other liquid; Place the  necessary liquid into the desired size sauce pan/pot/sautee pan and heat to a simmer (if the liquid requires heating), add the spices/herbs into the liquid. After the liquid and spices/herbs have simmered for about 8-10 min. the majority of the oils (the flavor part of the spices/herbs) have been released into the liquid. If the liquid needs to be colder than it is after simmering simply allow it to cool to room temperature, or place in an ice bath/refrigerator and chill to the desired temperature and then add it to the recipe. If this blend of liquid and herbs/spices can be added to the recipe while hot, go ahead and add it in!

#11- Always date the containers of spices/herbs Either the day they were opened, or better yet the day they are FIRST opened. With this next bit of information, labeling the spices/herbs will be kept at their best and it will take less to get the desired flavor using slightly less product. The following are shelf lives for dried herbs or spices.

Whole HARD dried herbs/spices- i.e. cardamom pods, cinnamon sticks, cloves, vanilla beans (sealed air tight), chili peppers (dried & or smoked), rosemary, anatto, turmeric
                         8 mo.-1yr. 3mo.

Previously Ground herbs/spices & blends- i.e. rosemary leaves, chili powder, curry powder, poultry seasoning, ground/cracked peppercorns, ground cinnamon, Pumpkin/apple pie spice
                         3mo.-6mo.

Whole Soft Dried Herbs/spices- i.e. some dried chili's, parsley, basil, mint (any kind), thyme, saffron, hibiscus flowers, lavender
                         6mo.-1yr.
Something to keep in mind is that when you grind herbs/spices and freeze them in an airtight container the shelf life extends to years in most cases! This can save you ALOT of money and bland food!

Well I hope this trip down the spice road has helped you! If there is anything else I can help you with my knowledge is at your disposal!
Thank you again Fred!

Chef Glen L. Davis II



I am sorry to hear of the illness, I can sympathize, and if it is any consolation I will be sure to put your family on the prayer list at my church.
On a lighter note, I did an experiment that might be of some help with your previous question. I found, probably the largest marble pesil and mortar at an Asian market, it cost about $125 but I can hand grind about 1 cup of whole spices at one time! While it is a bit expensive (and physically exhausting) it does get the job done very well. I found that it also lets me control the "coarseness" of the spices much more easily. I don't know if there are any Asian markets around where you live, but I recommend looking there if this sounds like an option that would work for you. I have looked on the internet and have thus far been unable to find one of comparable size. I estimate that the next closest size I have found will grind about 1/4 cup at a time. These options should help with the need for grinding so many times in the "small" electric grinder. I also have to say (jokingly), I have never had anyone of the opposite sex complain about a "spice" smell, but cut meat for a day and they want NOTHING to do with you!
I hope this "little experiment" helps you. Let me know if this is not an option that interests you, I am still "keeping an eye peeled" for a large electric grinder and may have met a new contact in the industry I can go to with an inquiry about it (unfortunately not until after the holidays), and will do so if you would like me to.

Thank you for a challenging question, (I love a good challenge by the way), and have a MERRY CHRISTMAS and if I don't communicate with you before hand have a HAPPY NEW YEAR!

---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: Chef Davis,
    Thanks for responding again.  You must really be very passionate about cooking.  I have another question to ask you. There are certain ethnic food that uses a garlic infused oil. I see them leaving the oil in room temperature for at least 6 months.  Would you happen to know how they manage to do so without the risk of "botulism"?  Would you know what is the standard acceptable way to acidify the garlic so as not to have the botulinum toxin grow?  I've researched the net and nobody seems to know... All they tell you is not to try it.  I talked to the owner of the restaurant who does it... He would not reveal the secret except to say that he's been doing this for 20 yrs and nobody died yet... lol!  Thanks!

Fred

Answer
Yet another GREAT QUESTION... YOUR ON A ROLL! Thank you, I do enjoy helping people and yes cooking is my "passion"! But I digress, back to business!

First let me tell you I was thinking of your first question today. I was in "Best Buy" (looking for a new MP3 player to take to the gym) and I thought I would check out their kitchen "gadgets". I happened to find a Cuisinart coffee grinder, that grinds up to 1 cup of coffee at a time! I even wrote down the model # and the "Best Buy" item #, but for the life of me I cannot find the paper I wrote it on! I did find out that it is a fairly new item and that most of their stores should have it in stock though.

On to the new business!

When I want to "infuse" oil with almost any flavor, I "toast" the "flavor donor" (as I like to call it) in the oil I want to flavor. This does two things:
#1. It allows the oil to "take on" the flavor desired VERY QUICKLY
AND
#2. The heat helps to kill any bacteria that is present in either the oil or (in this case) the garlic.
I just tell people to use it up within 2 weeks. Technically, according to the governing authorities, you should not do this. I think this method makes sense however, because it does kill almost any bacteria that could be present. The trick is to use relatively high heat to start (which helps to kill the bacteria before it can form a "spore") and then simmer for about 10-15 minutes, keeping a close eye so as not to burn or "smoke" the oil. The reason I tell people to only keep it for 2 weeks MAX, is because heat degrades the integrity of the oil and it will go "rancid" more easily.
I like to use this method for infusing oil with flavors such as cardamom, cinnamon, clove, onion, basil (ALWAYS use fresh herbs), rosemary, thyme and especially chili peppers! My favorite things to d with infused oils are:
Fajita's cooked with chili infused olive oil
Mahi/Tuna "seared" in thyme, rosemary, garlic and peppercorn olive oil
Stir-fry cooked with herb and chili infused peanut oil
The best oils I have found for infusing are peanut, EXTRA VIRGIN FIRST COLD PRESSED OLIVE OIL (highest quality, VERY dark green) and walnut.

I hope this answers your question, please let me know how it works out! Also let me know if there are any more questions you have! If you have a chance to check out the grinder let me know if that will suit your needs better! THANK YOU! MERRY CHRISTMAS!

I almost forgot to tell you garlic has some antibiotic properties. The "Tartars" are the first people that I know of who used garlic for this purpose. They would place very tough cuts of meat under their saddles and literally ride them to tenderize the meat. They would crush garlic and mix it with the meat, the garlic would kill much of the bacteria in the meat, making it relatively safe to eat. That is why when a chef these days makes a finely minced meat, mixed with (at least) garlic, they call it "tar-tar". These days most chefs will only use "sushi" or "sashimi" grade tuna for these style dishes. I personally like my "tar-tar" using beef, garlic, shallot, salt & pepper with a fresh quail egg cracked on top! DEEELICIOUS!!!!