AboutTom Schott Expertise Civil War, Reconstruction, military and political, Southern politics, slavery, civil war causation, general American history. Prefer 18th/19th century, but can handle all.
Experience Ph.D. in American history. College level teacher. Published author.
ROl1103908 [1:54 AM]: you still there?
B [1:55 AM]: yep.....sorry robert...i started chatting and i couldnt stop....
ROl1103908 [1:56 AM]: I have a friend who was amazed that the Ku Klux Klan was started by Democrats and she also thought Republicans were slavemasters
ROl1103908 [1:56 AM]: she wants to put the truth in her newspaper
B [1:57 AM]: wow...i'm surprised she thought that ....even i know both republicans and democrats were slave owners
ROl1103908 [1:57 AM]: no no no
ROl1103908 [1:57 AM]: never has a Republican owned a slave
ROl1103908 [1:58 AM]: the Republican party started on a platform of abolishing slavery
B [1:58 AM]: i sure a republican somewhere owned a slave...
ROl1103908 [1:58 AM]: I promise you I will give you $1000 if you can prove to me there was one Republican slavemaster
ROl1103908 [1:59 AM]: give me just one website
ROl1103908 [1:59 AM]: or one book
ROl1103908 [1:59 AM]: you got $1000
ROl1103908 [2:00 AM]: hey, ask all of your friends to look it up for you too
ROl1103908 [2:00 AM]: tell them to find something about Republican slavemasters
ROl1103908 [2:00 AM]: even one item
ROl1103908 [2:01 AM]: documentation beats conversation
ROl1103908 [2:02 AM]: I said on the radio that I would give $500 to anyone who could prove me wrong about Democrats and Republicans.
ROl1103908 [2:02 AM]: Nobody called
ROl1103908 [2:02 AM]: I did not payout anything.
B [2:02 AM]: what was james madison
B [2:03 AM]: repub or democrate
ROl1103908 [2:03 AM]: look it up
B [2:03 AM]: i'm askin you because because i found something
ROl1103908 [2:03 AM]: what did you find?
B [2:05 AM]: President James Madison and Black Resistance--African Americans & Presidents March 2001 (this was a link)
ROl1103908 [2:10 AM]: The Democratic Party claims James Madison
B [2:12 AM]: no..he was a democrat-republican
ROl1103908 [2:12 AM]: which was what Thomas Jefferson was
ROl1103908 [2:12 AM]: which the late Ron Brown claims as one of theirs
B [2:12 AM]: ok then....and james madison was a slave owner....so you owe me $1000
ROl1103908 [2:12 AM]: no no no
ROl1103908 [2:13 AM]: look at what I will show you on the DNC website
ROl1103908 [2:14 AM]: The late Ron Brown — former Chairman of the Democratic Party — put it best when he wrote, "The common thread of Democratic history, from Thomas Jefferson to Bill Clinton,
ROl1103908 [2:14 AM]: The Democratic Republicans were the Democratic Party
ROl1103908 [2:14 AM]: not the Republican Party formed in 1854
ROl1103908 [2:14 AM]: Thomas Jefferson was a Democratic Republican
ROl1103908 [2:15 AM]: same as James Madison
ROl1103908 [2:15 AM]: and the DNC claims them as their own
B [2:15 AM]: but you said there were now republican slavemasters....and james madison was exactly that
ROl1103908 [2:15 AM]: that was not the Republican Party
ROl1103908 [2:16 AM]: Thomas Jefferson was a slavemaster too
ROl1103908 [2:16 AM]: and the Democrats claim him
B [2:16 AM]: you didnt say republican party.....but he initially was a republican-democrat
ROl1103908 [2:16 AM]: G O P.com :: GOP History
B [2:16 AM]: James Madison belonged to the Democrat-Republican Party. James Madison ran against Pickney. James Madison won by 65 votes.
ROl1103908 [2:17 AM]: click the blue
B [2:17 AM]: no robert...you thrive on being right all the time....i gave you a source that said that he is republican/democrat and he was a slave owner
B [2:18 AM]: hold on...i'll get another for you
ROl1103908 [2:18 AM]: That was the Democratic Party in its orginal state
ROl1103908 [2:18 AM]: talk to any history teacher
B [2:19 AM]: Maryland's Electoral Vote for U.S. President
ROl1103908 [2:20 AM]: United States Democratic-Republican Party this says "not to be confused with the modern Republican Party."
B [2:20 AM]: robert...you owe me a $1k
ROl1103908 [2:20 AM]: read what that says: "
As noted above, the Democratic Party is a direct descendant of the Democratic-Republican Party. "
B [2:21 AM]: now your trying to make differences between new and old republican parties....
ROl1103908 [2:21 AM]: look what I just said
ROl1103908 [2:21 AM]: the Democratic Party today came from the old Democratic Republican Party
B [2:21 AM]: but he was a part of the d/r party in order for him to be descended into being just democrat later....
ROl1103908 [2:21 AM]: not the Republican Party of Abraham Lincoln
ROl1103908 [2:22 AM]: did you read this? G O P.com :: GOP History (this is link)
B [2:22 AM]: robert....i have you two sources and you are still saying i'm wrong...
ROl1103908 [2:22 AM]: you are wrong, because I gave you a quote that you can look up
ROl1103908 [2:23 AM]: United States Democratic-Republican Party (this is a link)
ROl1103908 [2:23 AM]: read ALL of this one
ROl1103908 [2:23 AM]: top to bottom
B [2:24 AM]: In Congress, he helped frame the Bill of Rights and enact the first revenue legislation. Out of his leadership in opposition to Hamilton's financial proposals, which he felt would unduly bestow wealth and power upon northern financiers, came the development of the Republican, or Jeffersonian, Party.
B [2:25 AM]: Biography of James Madison (this is a link)
ROl1103908 [2:25 AM]: now pay close attention to this United States Republican Party (this is a link)
ROl1103908 [2:25 AM]: read all of that twice
ROl1103908 [2:26 AM]: no just read the first 2 paragraphs because there was no slavery after 1865
ROl1103908 [2:27 AM]: "The Republican Party (often GOP for Grand Old Party) is a United States political party that was organized in Ripon, Wisconsin on February 28, 1854, as a party against the expansion of slavery. It is not to be confused with the Democratic-Republican party of Thomas Jefferson. "
B [2:27 AM]: did you read my links at all robert
ROl1103908 [2:28 AM]: this is the answer "It is not to be confused with the Democratic-Republican party of Thomas Jefferson."
ROl1103908 [2:28 AM]: which is what I said in the first place
B [2:28 AM]: did you read my links at all
ROl1103908 [2:28 AM]: Bev, that is moot because I said the Democratic Republicans were not the Republicans who started that party in 1854
ROl1103908 [2:29 AM]: James Madison was a Democrat in the tradition of Jefferson
ROl1103908 [2:29 AM]: which the Democratic Party of today claims
ROl1103908 [2:30 AM]: look at what that website said "the Democratic Party is a direct descendant of the Democratic-Republican Party."
B [2:30 AM]: no robert...now you are changing the subject....the subject was in reference to a republcian who was a slave master....not whether there was a united states repub party or not
ROl1103908 [2:30 AM]: I'm not changing the subject. look at this carefully: "the Democratic Party is a direct descendant of the Democratic-Republican Party."
ROl1103908 [2:30 AM]: what does that say?
ROl1103908 [2:32 AM]: click on Democratic Party and see "The Democratic Party traces its origin to the Democratic-Republican Party founded by Thomas Jefferson in 1793. The Democratic Party itself was formed from a faction of the Democratic-Republicans, led by Andrew Jackson. Following his defeat in the election of 1824 despite having a majority of the popular vote, Andrew Jackson set about building a political coalition strong enough to defeat John Quincy Adams in the election of 1828."
B [2:32 AM]: Madison was elected President in 1808. Before he took office the Embargo Act was repealed.
B [2:32 AM]: in 1808 there was slavery
ROl1103908 [2:32 AM]: yes
B [2:33 AM]: ok then...
ROl1103908 [2:33 AM]: Thomas Jefferson owned slaves
B [2:33 AM]: madison being both r/d was a slave owner
ROl1103908 [2:33 AM]: look at this carefully
ROl1103908 [2:33 AM]: The Democratic Party traces its origin to the Democratic-Republican Party founded by Thomas Jefferson in 1793.
ROl1103908 [2:33 AM]: I told you that the DNC claims Madison
ROl1103908 [2:34 AM]: They claim Jefferson, Madison, etc. as theirs, not the Republican Party we know about
ROl1103908 [2:34 AM]: that started in 1854
B [2:35 AM]: i see you refuse to look at what i provided....you want me to listen to you but you are not listening to me
B [2:35 AM]: not once did you even look at the web sites i provided
ROl1103908 [2:35 AM]: show me it again and I will explain thoroughly
ROl1103908 [2:36 AM]: Maryland's Electoral Vote for U.S. President ok I have seen that
ROl1103908 [2:37 AM]: and other Democratic Republicans
ROl1103908 [2:38 AM]: Biography of James Madison I have seen that too.
ROl1103908 [2:38 AM]: go back to what those encyclopedia websites said in the beginning
ROl1103908 [2:39 AM]:
The Democratic Party traces its origin to the Democratic-Republican Party founded by Thomas Jefferson in 1793.
ROl1103908 [2:39 AM]: I told you they claimed Thomas Jefferson
ROl1103908 [2:40 AM]: and the other slaveholding presidents
ROl1103908 [2:40 AM]: In the 1850s, following the disintegration of the Whig Party, the southern wing of the Democratic Party became increasingly associated with the continuation and expansion of slavery, in opposition of the newly formed Republican Party.
ROl1103908 [2:41 AM]: do you understand the whole picture now?
ROl1103908 [2:43 AM]: you still with me?
B [2:46 AM]: The Federalist; Biography of Madison (this is a link)
ROl1103908 [2:46 AM]: Bev, did you not read the above?
ROl1103908 [2:46 AM]: In the 1850s, following the disintegration of the Whig Party, the southern wing of the Democratic Party became increasingly associated with the continuation and expansion of slavery, in opposition of the newly formed Republican Party.
ROl1103908 [2:47 AM]: and back to the beginning "The Democratic Party traces its origin to the Democratic-Republican Party founded by Thomas Jefferson in 1793. "
ROl1103908 [2:47 AM]: or are you pulling my leg, just stringing me along
ROl1103908 [2:49 AM]: like I said the Democratic National Committee of today claims Thomas Jefferson, James Madison, etc.
ROl1103908 [2:49 AM]: they do not claim Abraham Lincoln, U.S. Grant, etc.
ROl1103908 [2:51 AM]: James Madison was a traditional Democrat which did not mind having slaves
ROl1103908 [2:52 AM]: the Republican Party in 1854, the party EVERY ex slave belonged to, was anti-slavery from the beginning
ROl1103908 [2:53 AM]: that is the Republican Party my grandfather belonged to
B [2:53 AM]: James Madison (this is a link)
ROl1103908 [2:53 AM]: and his father
ROl1103908 [2:53 AM]: you might as well show me Thomas Jefferson too
ROl1103908 [2:53 AM]: because he started the Democratic Republicans
ROl1103908 [2:54 AM]: look him up
B [2:56 AM]: no...you said you there were no republican slave owners...and madison owned 100 slaves
ROl1103908 [2:56 AM]: then look up Jefferson
B [2:56 AM]: he even had republican ideas he tried push
B [2:57 AM]: no ....i found a source that verified what i said....you now owe me $1K
B [2:57 AM]: in fact i found several sources
ROl1103908 [2:57 AM]: do you know the difference between a democracy and a republic?
B [2:57 AM]: including the archives of the u.s. govt
B [2:58 AM]: madison was a republican robert
ROl1103908 [2:58 AM]: do you know the difference between a democracy and a republic?
B [2:58 AM]: and even if the he was considered a democrat later....he still fell under the def of being a republican
B [2:59 AM]: girst
B [2:59 AM]: first
ROl1103908 [2:59 AM]: I ask you again, do you know the difference between a republic and a democracy?
B [2:59 AM]: i know the difference robert....but thats not the issue
ROl1103908 [2:59 AM]: yes it is
ROl1103908 [3:00 AM]: that is very critical
ROl1103908 [3:00 AM]: to our discussion
B [3:00 AM]: the issue at hand was you said there were no republican slaver owners....and i proved you wrong...you just want to accept it
B [3:00 AM]: dont want to
ROl1103908 [3:00 AM]: because I'm talking political parties
ROl1103908 [3:00 AM]: what is the definition of a republic?
B [3:01 AM]: no.....you said.....there were no republican slave owners....and i said both parties had slaves..
ROl1103908 [3:01 AM]: please answer me that question
B [3:01 AM]: no robert...i'm not..because you are too busy trying to prove me wrong.....and i know i'm right...
B [3:02 AM]: no matter what i say....i am wrong
ROl1103908 [3:02 AM]: what is the origin of the republican Party that Bush belongs to?
B [3:02 AM]: no need to argue this further......take the win if thats what makes you happy
B [3:02 AM]: i'll talk to you later
ROl1103908 [3:02 AM]: no what is the origin of Bush's Republican Party
ROl1103908 [3:03 AM]: where can that be traced back to historically?
ROl1103908 [3:03 AM]: if James Madison was a part of Bush's Republican Party, then I will pay you $1000
ROl1103908 [3:05 AM]: I will go further than that. If Thomas Jefferson was also a part of the Republican Party that Lincoln, Eisenhower, Nixon, and Reagan belonged to, then I will give you $1K
ROl1103908 [3:05 AM]: the same party my grandfather belonged to
ROl1103908 [3:06 AM]: understand me now?
ROl1103908 [3:07 AM]: and add James Monroe and John Quincy Adams,
She quit talking.
Please give me some third party information to enlighten her as to tell her "Republican" to Jefferson was not "Republican" in the Abraham Lincoln sense.
Thank you.
Answer This is way too long to plow through, but I can tell you this: the "Democratic-Republicans" of Jefferson and Madison were NOT the same as the Republicans of Lincoln. If a Ph.D. in American history is not enough to convince her, she's got serious problems indeed.
