Women`s Issues/female navy SEALS
lochmyer wrote at 2008-02-10 02:45:41
* be an active-duty member of the U.S. Navy
* be a man (women aren't allowed to be Navy SEALs)
* be 28 or younger (although waivers for 29- and 30-year-olds are possible)
* have good vision -- at least 20/40 in one eye and 20/70 in the other (corrective surgery is also possible)
* be a U.S. citizen
* pass the Armed Services Vocational Aptitude Battery (ASVAB)
* Pass a stringent physical screening test that includes the following procedure:
1. swim 500 yards in 12.5 minutes or less, followed by a 10-minute rest
2. do 42 push-ups in under two minutes, followed by a two-minute rest
3. do 50 sit-ups in under two minutes, followed by a two-minute rest
4. do six pull-ups, followed by a 10-minute rest
5. run 1.5 miles in boots and long pants in less than 11.5 minutes
John wrote at 2008-04-08 06:12:08
A woman SEAL would be a hilarious idea if it wasn't so dangerous to our nation's security. No woman who is not taking steroids has any chance whatsoever in meeting the physical requirements of becoming a SEAL, not to mention what a woman would do to team unity and the psychological aspects of combat effectiveness. Women and men have evolved differently. They have different capabilites which have been determined by millions of years of natural selection. The only way a woman will ever become a SEAL is if the standards are lowered to a gross degree.
A.B. wrote at 2009-08-09 13:13:23
John, as far as what you have to say about the social aspects - those are your opinion, and are therefore debatable.
As far as physical fitness, you are just plain wrong. I am telling you this as a female Naval Aircrewman in the spec ops community, who works and trains with 95% males every day. I meet the MALE requirements for push-ups and blow the sit-ups and run out of the water. Oh, and we're expected to do pull-ups as well. The SEAL physical screening test that's been posted here - I surpass it. You'll also be interested to know, I am NOT on steroids. Because of this I have the respect, trust, and comraderie of my brothers in arms.
Furthermore, there are plenty of males who don't initially meet the physical requirements for various Naval communities. But if you have the determination and desire to meet those requirements and you're giving it your all, instructors will work with you to bring you up to that level. We had a lot of guys in aircrew who had to go on PT hold - some ended up dropping and some made it. It all depends on your determination, male or female.
Overall though, it seems to me you don't know too many women in the spec ops community, and are pulling the whole "women can't make the physical cut" bullshit right out of your ass. I take my job and my service to my country very seriously, so no, I don't find the idea of female SEALs "hilarious".
frogman234 wrote at 2009-12-17 03:16:18
I wasn't aware that Naval Aircrewman were now cvlassified as a special operation contingent...? If this is the case, I am truly frustrated as to why I had to endure the rigors of BUD/s, Jump School, SEAL Qualification Training and a "Trident Board" to be classified as a "Special Operator" when I could have just gone through the "Aircrewman Pipeline" instead...
Congratulations on your said physical prowess. Like you, I too "blow the sit-ups and run out of the water." The difference is I do it weighing 210 lbs... Can you? Make no mistake, your own stated physical capabilities are impressive. At the same, time remember that the actual BUD/s screening test is overwhelmingly the easiest part of BUD/s training. At the successful conclusion of test, more than 70% of students will ultimately fail. The real test is surviving both the performance test(s) and the daily grind for up to a year straight.
I applaud your motivation but strongly encourage you to work out like a SEAL (with a SEAL) to truly gauge your percieved ablity and intensity(s)...
D wrote at 2010-02-04 23:44:56
Hello, my name is Gedeon. Navy SEAL program is a tough program needless to say. Things in life take time to change, and money. The same in the Navy. I've been in for almost five years. I would like your friend to grasp the entire challenge ahead. On one side before she even gets looked at she would have to join the service, then go through the prerequisites. Man of many types attempt this program. Whether or not your big, or muscular. This won't matter. The will to succeed must exceed the many layers that she must first meet. First legallity, second herself and deciding what she truly want once given this oppurtunity, third entrance to Navy, forth prerequisite training, fifth Navy Seal training, sixth herself. Each layer might have to be tackled seperatly, or at the same time. Navy SEAL's are suppose to be the best of man in every form of will. In being so I believe she'd be given and even chance, not a easier chance, if she can complete the training I'd love to serve by her side. There is more to training then what we see on tv. Such a contreversial topic would put such a sensative program at risk, due to the specilations between normal training, hazing, and gender based abuse.
John wrote at 2010-02-06 14:11:03
The reason why women aren't allowed in the Navy Seal is not because of the physical training, besides the training is all 90% Mental and 10% Physical. The reason why women aren't allowed is simple 1) Women are not allowed to be direct combat 2) The mentality of a woman is different then that of a man. Men are mentally stronger (not smarter) then women. The testosterone is what makes people different then that with estrogen.
RKT wrote at 2010-04-29 02:39:30
Your logic and reasoning is faulty. It is true that women are biologically different, but that does not mean that they are physically unable to do the same things as men. Also, the idea that women do not have the mental ability is bullshit. There are many women who are mentally stronger than men.
In my opinion you need a complete reality check and so do the policies of our military. If the men in the military are afraid that a woman is going to show them up, maybe the military is not the place for them.
Your comment that “A woman SEAL would be a hilarious idea if it wasn't so dangerous to our nation's security” shows your lack of knowledge and respect of the opposite gender.
“The testosterone is what makes people different then that with estrogen” is also an bullshit answer and does not even make since. Both men and women carry testosterone and estrogen, just in different levels. Please, if you are going to post information, make it have some creditability and truth.
A very smart man I know who was once a Navy Seal believes that if given the chance there are some women out there that would blow some the men out of the water in Seals training. Determination is the key factor in accomplishment and strength, not gender.
In my opinon you need a complete reality check and so do the policies of our military.
thatguy wrote at 2010-08-07 06:14:28
To RKT and A.B.
Apparently there is a Navy Seal who commented and gave his two cents on here. Why didn't you two counter or insult him?
To A.B., yes you can debate all you want and find a counter for basically anything. Its does not mean your argument is true or fact.
I applaud your accomplishments on your physical capabilities...but are you 180lbs over? Over 6 feet tall? I've just seen this time and time again where somebody tries to be something their not and talk about another agency or school and call it easy but never actually go through with it. However, can you please give your stats? height? weight? Can you carry a wounded soldier by yourself with all your gear?
To RKT, can you please give facts if you know any to back up your argument. I think your just upset that a policy is against or labeling a WOMEN as unable to join the Navy Seals. I think your on here just because you can be. Though you can't accept that women don't have what it takes to be a Navy Seal.
Do I think a women can be a Marine? OF COURSE
Army? Yes, Ranger School? Maybe, Combat Control or Pararescue? Like to see a women try, Navy Seal? NO.
Lets put policy and military aside. I think you two have a hard time facing reality. I know women are FAR more Naturally ELITE in some aspects that men and visa versa.
Lets look at military elite men and women times in every category. Look at Olympic times for both women and men. Triathlons in both men and women. Lets us know on here what you see...
You will realize men are just faster and stronger as a whole. NO doubt a Marion Jones can beat a regular joe but overall Men in her sport can destroy here.
I would rather see a 250lbs women linebacker in the NFL who is fast as HELL and takes it day in and day out. I suggest your look up the policies in that sport. I think you got a better chance.
hatakilla wrote at 2010-11-09 18:39:30
maybe its not such a good thing to totally rule out women passing through the seal pipeline. After all i myself HATE being told i cant do something. but after all obvious differences between men and women, men are stronger physically then women and thats that. however i still havent heard a legit reason why women cant atleast try.
Valis wrote at 2010-11-20 07:51:13
John's argument stating that 'Men are stronger mentally than women' is absolutely laughable. Where are the statistics to prove this rubbish?
From my personal knowledge, it is usually men, not women, who repress their feelings. Women on the other hand, are more in touch with their emotions and one of the reasons why women live longer than men.
Men may be physically stronger, but mentally stronger? Absolutely not!
babababaabab wrote at 2011-01-17 21:48:44
First of all, why don't each and everyone of you go to Bud/S and try it for yourself. I have been to bud/S and i assure you that a female can complete simple runs and swims, but its more than just that. Actually you know what, go ahead and send a female to buds. Her neck will probably snap under a boat evolution, those of you that have been will understand what im talking about
css wrote at 2011-05-03 23:23:32
First of all, there is plenty of research that proves that women are better at men at many things. Women tolerate pain better than men. A recent study of military vets found that female soldiers were less likely to say they’re in pain than male soldiers. When test subjects held their hands in freezing water, women lasted 19 percent longer than men.
Experts also say that women make better cops, women make better doctors, women also make better athletes. A study found that when it comes to exercises womens endurance is almost twice that of men.
Overall the arguments all wrap around the idea that men are physically stronger then women, strength is relative. Maybe women if given the opportunity would make better Navy Seals, maybe not. However, the should be given the opportunity. The Navy Seal extremely rigorous training is meant to weave out the unfit and incompetent men, it will do the same for women. So there wouldn't or shouldn't be the concern that a women could not pull their weight if she proves to be mentally and physically capable to Navy Seal standards, of course assuming women would be given the opportunity.
ckm wrote at 2011-05-11 16:12:18
Thats a good arguent CSS but I believe the main crux of this argument is what has been seen in the regular armed forces, LOE and even Fire departments. You hear about standards being lowered so as to fit in certain individuals or suffer a PR mess. Who is to say that once it is evident that far fewer women than men can make it through BUD/S that there wont be some PC policing happen where some "never done it" politician argues that all SEALs do is shoot guns so there's no need for such stringent training?
jenny wrote at 2011-05-11 22:19:44
any male who thinks they are mentally stronger than a woman should try natural childbirth.
i know plenty of women in the armed forces (including myself) who can outperform many of the men physically on any given day.
Mr.cool wrote at 2011-05-15 12:25:05
The question is not about competition between males and females. As far as your physical standards are concerned,you may surpass a man,but there is no guarantee that every female will surpass a man. Also,you would like to break into a 'MALE BASTION' but definately you would'nt like men to see barging in womens gymn!
jen wrote at 2011-08-01 00:39:54
I am prior navy (10 years)- and attended aircrew school (and I am a female). My father is a marine.
My father and I have had similar discussions about this and with suprising conclusions. In high school (he graduated 1964)there were NO womens sports teams; girls were required to wear skirts; and it was believed that women couldn't run further than 200m- that women had come a very long way in just a few decades after several millenia of being underestimated and oppressed.
In our society girls are conditioned from a very early age to be weak. We are products of our environment in regards to diet, physical activity, and the expections of those around us. Why is it little girls get baby dolls and all of the crap is plastered in pink? Because that is societies expectations of us- only to produce babies and have low expectations of ourselves.
As per my father- we just need more time and social environments must change.
At NACCS, my room mate was Aircrew Honorman of her class and RSS honorman of her class- she outperformed all of the males in every aspect- an no she wasn't on steroids. RSS is a HARD school- many guys rock out of it.
As for women being SEALs- at this point in time I would say "NO"- the ideas imbedded in our society will not allow it.Men in general do not see women as equals in any aspect- if you are a man watch how you react to women- running to open a door or help carry something heavy- would you help a guy? How do you react differently to a little girl than a little boy- how EVERYONE reacts differently- it starts for us at a very early age- being WEAK and we (both men and women) carry that attitude throughout our lives. I had to work twice as hard to get half the credit- there are plenty of women in the military who USE being a women to their benefit giving the rest of us a bad wrap.
If women can get over being women, and men could get over women being women- then there would be a fair chance that there ARE women out there capable of being a SEAL in the future.
Freddy wrote at 2013-03-25 15:54:16
Has anyone dealt with a women that hasn't bathed in weeks? Has anyone dealt with a women when she's pmsing? Outside of the obvious, the logistics to to accommodate a women would be astronomical. The funding would degrade the readiness of the teams. The standards would need to drop which in turn would make things a lot more dangerous. Some things aren't meant to be equal. This is one of them. And for the aircrew guy. You would not walk up to any team guy and put yourself on the same level so don't do it on here.
Sun Du wrote at 2013-03-30 10:28:11
Being a soldier and especially a foot soldier isn't about strength so much as endurance and tolerance. Women and men both fit and fail in that category. And, I know there are women who are tougher than I, and I will happily entertain the idea of a Female Navy Seals over myself a male being and Navy seal.
--- if I was military I would rather be an Officer (as in a base officer), or a medic back at camp...
The ability to do X sit-ups and X push-ups isn't a measure of of strength, so much as a measure of fitness and endurance... (The're aren't any wright lifting requirements there). Though imagine anyone who can do those can lift over 100 lbs.... Which is more than enough for any task a soldier would have to do.
The issues raised here in the comment session are more a matter of nature vs nurture. For example, I'm not a violent man, I wouldn't want to make career in something where I have to entertain the idea of shooting someone everytime I'm out on the the field. However history shows a fare share of violent men and women.
And, to me the mentioning of PMS... Makes me laugh. Yes PMS is a very uncorfortable situation that occurs monthly for some and others a little less (birth control) for others. But you know should that it is uncomfortable and women were meant to go through child-birth which is also a little uncomfortable. So yes women are generally better at pain tolerance and constant discomfort than men. Also they reach their physical peak generally quicker than men, as a person who have watched girls train for sports... Women, if they improve their times in say like track... Generally improve in greater rates.
-Fact: A lot of find complaining or being moody ( using it as an excuse) during PMS-- whiny and pitiful.
Also, studies have shown that women are better at handling distraction and doing several things at once....
So for a Female Navy Seals... I say yes. Just anyone being Navy Seals... No.