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About Greg Scholl
Expertise
Questions on Woodworking, wood finishing and refinishing of all kinds, repairing furniture and wooden objects,Architectural details, Woodturning, carving, tool usage, product usage, some chemistry as it applies to woodworking and related interests,cabinet making and furniture construction/design, etc. I have experience with all manners of colorants, finishes, paints, stains, dyes, glazes, and coatings,wood species recognition,usage,etc.

Experience
Fine furniture restorer and cabinet maker for over 30 years,serving high end Antique dealers, Interior designers, Collectors in the CT area. Sold, built, serviced, setup Home,Industrial and Commercial stationary woodworking tools for a major tool retailer in CT. for three years, sold hand and power tools, and offered instruction on use and care as well.I even have some Trade show Demo experience.

Organizations
none at this time.

Publications
Published in Fine Woodworking Magazine (12/97), included on Fine Woodworkings first "Best of Fine Woodworking" CD-ROM (2002) ...("27 year compilation of expert know-how"), local newspapers as well

Education/Credentials
Art School at Silvermine Guild in Norwalk, CT., 9 year apprenticeship in a European run Cabinet and Restoration shop in CT., various classes on subjects having to do with the field. Seminars by Major tool manufacturers, Delta, Powermatic, Performax, Porter Cable, Skil/Bosch to name a few.

Past/Present Clients
Many varied clients including work on Martha Stewarts' Westport, CT. show house, many fine Antique dealers and private collectors in and around Fairfield County and in Woodbury, CT.(the Antiques capital of CT.)
Consulting for area Painting/Decorating and Building contractors on non painting issues..(staining, wood prep.,clear finishing, floor restoration and architectural detail restoration and repair, etc.), local Museums and Historical Societies.

You are here: Experts > Hobbies > Woodworking > Woodworking > Why is Oil Varnish being changed to sythetic Varnish?

Woodworking - Why is Oil Varnish being changed to sythetic Varnish?

Expert: Greg Scholl - 10/28/2009

Question
QUESTION: Why is Oil Varnish being changed to synthetic Varnish?

Problem I am having:

I am an artesian and have used spar varnish for 30 years. If you have used Cabot Spar Varnish, you need to understand this:

Cabot has no right to place a synthetic product that compels oil, under a product which has been natural oil base for centuries. I have been testing this product. If you use it and let it set for 12 hours, it is in gum format and it can rub right off your surface with a rag. If it dries over a 3 day period it is like cement and does not sand easy. Who wants to sand antiques? The Cabot surface film will not take any additional oil finish wipes, since it compels any oil based product. All it takes is a film of bad Cabot and you have permanent streaks. The high gloss cans are not high gloss; and beware; it can not be sanded to a gloss surface because it is a synthetic gum. If any one knows of a class action effort against damage this product has done under the experience hands of wood workers?.. I am in. I bought my product from Lowe’s, who discontinued the Spar Varnish and has no alternative product on their shelves. Synthetic spar urethane is made for boats and under heavy duty sanding, and is called under the correct name of urethane, but beware, salespersons grab this product when a customer asks for spar varnish and claims it is the same. If I ask them where they learned this fact, they tell me they are told to say it. We are talking about Home Depot and Lowe’s together. I have been trying the ACE Spar Varnish which is doing well. Here is your solution. They do not carry much on their shelves, so let them know to restock.

It is important that Cabot Spar Varnish User’s know that the product will dry in the can to a gel if you do not place the lid on it while doing your job. It has no shelf life and should have never been placed on shelves to the regulated specifications. I do not know how this product was sold. This just tells me, large outfits like Lowe’s seem to be out of touch with regulations and test use of products. They rely on a hand few like us to get burnt and blow whistle. See the nations complaints on www.complaintsboard.com under this products name

ANSWER: Hi Kristen,Spar varnish is typically designed for exterior use and is not a good choice for finishing furniture.It's too soft and flexible as a cured film, and does not rub out well when compared to a conventional spirit varnish, shellac, etc. A Spar is a part of a boat, hence the name for this type of flexible,long oil varnish... I assume that by the word "compel" you mean repel? Most modern varnishes have been slowly modified using urethanes, Tung oil, and other resins, and now with the new V.O.C. regulations, these manufacturers have been forced to reformulate the product using slower, less aromatic, and less toxic solvents.....which is changing these products for the worse.Oil paint is now gone from the market almost completely, and all the other traditional oil based finishes will follow suit in the near future, unfortunately.
"The Cabot surface film will not take any additional oil finish wipes, since it compels any oil based product". I'm not quite sure what this sentence means, perhaps you can elaborate, as the Spar urethanes are still an oil based product. Typically, in the can, these varnishes have plenty of shelf life, but if you introduce ANY thinner into the product it will accelerate the gelling and ruin what's left.Oxygen is also the enemy of these finishes inside the can. You can thin a smaller batch of the varnish, in a separate container, right before application, but don't add that back to the can or you will start the gelling process, and eventually the varnish will solidify. If you're doing Antiques on a regular basis, you should definitely not be using hardware store products, especially Spar varnish on them. There are many places that sell more professional products, geared toward the Pro. I do however, agree with you in the fact that I'm pissed off that the Government is forcing companies to reformulate products that have served us for many, many years, in some cases 100's of years, and made our job extremely frustrating. Fortunately, one of the things they haven't been able to mess with is shellac, which has been around for thousands of years, and is supplied without the solvent in it, in solid form. It is the finish of choice for Antique restoration in many cases, and Jeff Jewett's site homesteadfinishing.com stocks many varieties, several of which I keep in stock at all times, and mix only small batches at a time. And while I'm aware it's not a great choice for table tops, or other hard wear surfaces, it does excel at almost all other finishing tasks when talking about Antiques. The Gel varnishes and urethanes like the General and the Bartley are also still available and excellent products.Unfortunately, complaining now won't do any good, as the changes have been in the works for a few years now, and it will take some time to "shake out" the market to arrive at a new selection of reliable and durable products for us to use. There are some loopholes that will still allow some companies to supply the older formulations in small containers I am told. But we'll see........regards- Greg

http://www.homesteadfinishingproducts.com/htdocs/shellac3.htm

http://www.homesteadfinishingproducts.com/htdocs/oils_varnish.htm#waterlox

---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: Thanks Greg,
You answer makes me feel like I am not the only one out there that sees the problematic change. You are much more understanding than I. I feel that it is beyond VOC, underlined with lobby control and patent wars. The reason I use spar varnish, is because it is the only choice out there, and now this has been taken off the shelves. Spar varnish gives an oil luster that shellac will not. It is also easy to buff and polish and I only use the thinnest coat, so the extra oil soaks in the wood or my rag.

If I change to ordering my supply on line and by mail, this will add to the empty self problem. I have been going to Michaels, and I buy their spray varnish for oil paintings, which I spray onto my rag. The can is not good for our land fills, but it is a solution.

I did mean repel. Word did a change in auto spell check due to a typo. The synthetic oils do not bond well, like natural oils. There is a world of difference when buffing a surface. Gum just does not buff well. The real varnish will press to a mirror shine when the oils are taken in the rag and the pure varnish is left.

I did put the smallest amount of thinner in the can. I took the can in to Lowe’s and the help there could not even read the can details. If it is stated on the can to not mix thinner, it can not be read by the natural eye. So if the bond is completely different than the traditional spar varnish, why do they call it the same? It is truly an apple to an orange. I have lost 2K in learning this problematic change. I was caught of guard as an expert. I smelled the can, looked at its clarity and could not see the difference.

This change came on so fast. For artists who need to know their medium, change is not good. Our skills of which we have learned are all based on methods used through out the centuries and have proven to be the best against time. We are seeing antiques being refinished with urethanes, which will degrade their survival rate, for all urethanes turn piss yellow and craze in about 40 years. There is no way to restore urethane but to strip, scrap and sand it off. Unless, done by an experienced hand, these methods prove to be harmful to a collectable. If varnished, it can be softened and buffed over and over again. For all materials, it is important that what was used before is used again, so the surface can marry well. This is the rule for labeled materials. This rule has failed the consumer miserably. I doubt the VOC, has anything to do with labels.

The saying, “reinventing the wheel” has taken over the simplicities of the arts. The real issue here is the individual who ventures with time and interest to restore a collectable and defaults to the misleading products which is the only products on the shelf. The result will never be better than an amateur job, not to the true fault of the effort taken by a learning hand but by the inferior product which does not complement a collectable.

Answer
I think you need to broaden your horizons as far as your sources go. Places like Lowes, Homedepot, etc., have never carried products and supplies for the Pro end of the furniture finishing spectrum, and never will. The people who work there typically know almost nothing about finishes, finishing, the history, techniques, and products that we use.Online is really the only choice unless you're lucky enough to live within driving distance of a real supplier like WoodCraft, Woodworkers Supply, or one of the very few other retail outlets that cater to the Pro wood finisher....Varnish gelling, and skinning in the can has always been a problem, and when using any varnish, Poly, etc. the first rule is to stir the product thoroughly to incorporate the oils,resins and thinners, so I'm a bit confused by your description of the way you're using it...it's not possible for this to happen..... "The real varnish will press to a mirror shine when the oils are taken in the rag and the pure varnish is left." What you're describing sounds like a padding technique, which can be used with many finishes, but the finish is not separated when applying into oils, resins, and thinners...it's all incorporated together during the application, and stays that way, it takes several days for any separation to start taking place....I disagree that shellac will not give you a very similar finish...it's quite glossy, repairs very well, pads, sprays, brushes on very well, and when paste waxed, produces a beautiful, deep, silky finish.It's one of the oldest finishing resins on Earth, and one of the best choices for restoring or refinishing Antiques.De-waxed Garnet, Dark Garnet, Bysakhi, and Seedlac, all have variations of that dark amber/reddish hue that traditional varnishes exhibit as well, which makes Cherry, Walnut, Mahogany, etc. really "pop' and look beautiful.Blonde and Super Blonde are very light honey colored to almost clear, and almost look like a solvent lacquer on lighter woods. You can use Grain alcohol, in a pinch, from the liquor store to mix it( I doubt that will ever be regulated away by the Feds), but I use Bekhol which is designed specifically for shellac.Because of that it dries in hours,instead of days, allowing one to complete a finish in a quarter the time it takes with varnish. Modern urethane resins won't craze, or turn opaque, like Linseed oil varnishes of old, and the two don't "bond" any differently,the chemistry really isn't that different, hence the reason they smell the same.They typically start with the similar Alkyd base they've used for ever, and "modify" it with the more modern resins. so again, not quite what you mean there either...I would suggest that you familiarize yourself with the WaterLox products, which are a modified Tung oil/varnish product that's been around for many, many years, and start to work with that if you want to continue to use a varnish. They will exhibit the character and qualities that you're used to from applying a very thin,traditional Linseed oil varnish, yet are still available on the market, and excel at the padding technique, as they're supplied quite thin and apply beautifully, especially the "original" product. WoodCraft carries them as well as several other online retailers....read about them here:
http://www.waterlox.com/site/427/default.aspx

http://www.waterlox.com/desktopmodules/fathomecom/catalog/category.aspx?tabid=42...

And if you do a fair amount of Antique repair and restoration, I would encourage you to start to develop your skills with Shellacs...get some Garnet and some Super Blonde flakes to experiment with, DON'T buy hardware store Orange shellac....while it's all ANYONE at Lowe's will know about,we're talking a completely different animal here...Poke around at homestead. They still are one of the best sources for all things finishing, and Jeff also produces a plethora of books, DVD's, does seminars and teaches,etc. on the techniques...regards- Greg

http://www.homesteadfinishingproducts.com/htdocs/shellac3.htm

"If varnished, it can be softened and buffed over and over again"

I'm still a little confused by the description of your methodology here, Varnishes, particularly long oil varnishes, once cured, can not be softened as you're indicating just by applying more solvent or "oil" as you're describing. Once a varnish has cured, especially if it's many years old...the only way to soften it is with a strong chemical stripper.Adding any solvent on top of a cured varnish will have no effect...this is one way to discover a varnished surface when working with one, (and now of course the catalyzed finishes come into play as well),... Finishes such as shellac and lacquer,can be reamalgamated with varying degrees of success. An oil finish can be repaired/renewed by these methods,if in good shape, but not a varnish. If you are using the "oil" separated from a varnish, when the solids precipitate out of the mixture, then what you're essentially doing is an oil finish. A varnish is a solids containing film finish that builds on the surface of the wood in layers, and hardens as a film, not a penetrating oil. Gloss is attained by that film, the thicker the end result the more deep and glossy the resulting layer of finish. For the best protection, especially in the case of an exterior Spar varnish, comes from a thicker coat of resins and varnish solids cured on the surface.(several thin coats to produce a thicker film, usually 3-5 brushed on coats)..a thin coat as you're describing would not offer much protection or durability in the elements....

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